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Justice Department likely to wait after midterms to reveal charges against Donald Trump
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.1.0_13.pdf
Terrible the way the FBI, during the Raid of Mar-a-Lago, threw documents haphazardly allover the floor perhaps pretending it was me that did it!), and then started taking pictures of them for the public to see. Thought they wanted them Secret?
I will leave the criticism of his poor writing to another poster.
I thought that they planted the documents, that is what trump said, so how could he have declassified documents that they planted? Come on trumper even you can see the contradiction there, can't you?
I know you will have to look up what contradiction means but trust me it will be worth it.
They were declassified. They were planted. He was not the one who packed the box. What about Hillary's emails, Hunter's laptop, and President Obama hurting trump's feelings!
Spin The Wheel of Excuses!
This just cuts through all the bs defenses that this idiot and his moronic followers have been throwing up.
The documents were requested then demanded and still he actively did not give them back, actively sought to block their return by moving them around, basically hiding them.
Of course we all want to know “why” but legally it doesn’t matter.
Of course it makes it serious, more serious that many, MANY documents were highly classified (and they knew it) with the bright colored borders around them and it’s utterly obvious that he DID NOT declassify them while he was POTUS, in spite of his claims there is ZERO evidence, but legally it doesn’t matter, except at sentencing where it will matter a great deal. The classification level is irrelevant for obstruction, the presidential records act or the espionage act.
Trump took what did not belong to him. That’s theft. (I notice that nobody has even bothered to defend this one.) When asked to give it back, he refused. When presented a demand in the form of a subpoena, he kept top secret documents in violation of the order. Furthermore he sought to hide his possession by lying (technically his lawyers lied when signing the doc. They either lied for him or he lied to them. I’m guessing that wont matter in a court of law.) and saying that that was everything and THEN moving some of them from the poorly protected storage room to other places like his office. That’s obstruction. Period. Full stop.
He took what didn’t belong to him he didn’t give it back when asked. He knew he had them. He tried to hide them. That’s the case.
And as he knew he had them and that the government was lawfully demanding their return, a process crime it is not.
Everything else is deflect, whatabout bs.
He is guilty as hell and I really hope that the Department of Justice bails him to the cross.
“Don’t lie to law enforcement, follow instructions”
I wonder if we’ll hear this oft repeated gem today. I’m guessing not.
Gee? So team Donald wasn’t cooperating after all? Who could have guessed?
so what did he plan to do with his dirt on Macron, I wonder?
sell it to Le Pen? Orban? You know, continue with Ric Grenells mission to “foster right wing nationalist movements in Europe?”
He is guilty as hell and I really hope that the Department of Justice bails him to the cross.
Guilty of what? What is the charge? Was he convicted of a crime? I thought in the US you have the right to be judged innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and how would you know he obstructed the law? Who determines that?
In 2018 it became a felony crime to knowingly mishandle classified documents.
45 surely knows this, he pushed for and signed the bill after a campaign built around chanting “lock her up, lock her up”.
It has already been confirmed as FACT that two spies were meandering through Mar-a-Lago. trump was showing top secret documents to other people, asking for their opinions. He had top secret documents, clearly marked, hidden between sheets of paper and even a framed magazine cover. He took boxes of documents wherever he went, including overseas to other countries like at these events with Putin and Saudi Arabian officials. He lied about having more documents than were already turned over earlier in the year.
Did they check under his bed? How about in his other homes?
The good news is the statutes that Trump will hopefully be indicted for violating have nothing to do with whether these documents were classified or not. He was hiding them after stating he didn't have them any longer, and that is clear Obstruction of Justice.
EU should put the Bannonite universe on a no entry list. They were, and still are the enemy of the EU and everything it stands for. They long for the good old days of the proud independent European States
that were constantly at war, for centuries.
Who benefits from a fractured Europe at constant war?
oh, gee, could it possibly be the great coast to coast Eurasian empire? What a coincidence!
Guilty of what? What is the charge? Was he convicted of a crime? I thought in the US you have the right to be judged innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and how would you know he obstructed the law? Who determines that?
Pick any of his speeches about Hillary and apply them to Trump.
In 2018 it became a felony crime to knowingly mishandle classified documents. 45 surely knows this, he pushed for and signed the bill after a campaign built around chanting “lock her up, lock her up”.
The irony is delicious. It will be even funnier watching him get locked up, and yelling "LOCK HIM UP" at his back.
In 2018 it became a felony crime to knowingly mishandle classified documents.
How did he mishandle classified documents when he declassified them? And since the DOJ knew of these classified documents, Top Secret, then why did they tell Trump he should store them and get a lock for them to put in a safe and then if they were so urgently needed then why didn’t they request for them to be returned last year.
He does as well as his lawyers, but the bigger question is, does Garland and the Dems know this?
Yeah, it’s really funny now how the Dems love the FBI now when a few years ago, they despised the agency to its core.
Guilty of what? Who determines that?
The law determines that. In order to establish guilt or innocence, the law first conducts inquiries. You don’t seem to want them to do that.
The poster you’re responding to doesn’t know that. He’s merely expressing an opinion. As are you, and you appear to “know” Trump is innocent.
I thought in the US you have the right to be judged innocent until proven guilty in a court of law
I assume you do. Except that for you, and for all Trump supporters, his appearance in a court of law to establish his guilt or innocence seems to be the last thing you want. You appear to hold him above and beyond the law, or the consequences of his own actions.
Yeah, it’s really funny now how the Dems love the FBI now when a few years ago, they despised the agency to its core.
funny, I don’t remember the “dems” calling for the abolition of the FBI. Loads of complaints about Comey’s timing, sure. Abolishing the FBI? You’re making that up
He has nuclear secrets!”Is now back to the old standby of “he likely obstructed us from witch hunting him for something we can’t prove we ever had the right to do”.
so let’s throw a bunch of documents on the floor that were not there when the fbi arrived and act like that’s where they were, then release a random pic but not the unredacted affidavit.
He does as well as his lawyers, but the bigger question is, does Garland and the Dems know this?
The Dems? All of them?
Again, it’s not a team sport.
Are you suddenly against investigating the law?
”I just want it applied fairly, November, something about ‘Dems’”
As I’ve said many times “somebody else did it at some previous time in history” is not a valid legal defense.
As I’ve said many times “somebody else did it at some previous time in history” is not a valid legal defense.
It is if they weren’t prosecuted. “Precedent” is the term.
Yeah, it’s really funny now how the Dems love the FBI now when a few years ago, they despised the agency to its core.
It is even funnier how now the conservative right is screaming "Defund the police," and we should not always "back the blue."
And the best part? He did it to himself. This wasn’t some “deep-state” plot. NARA alerted him WHILE he was president. He ignored them.
NARA worked repeatedly for over a year requesting the documents and he gave them a few. Had he given them all, it’s done and over.
But he didn’t. NARA discovers about 700 Classified documents in the stuff they got but realize that that’s not everything. They notify trump and tell him that they have to notify the FBI. At this point, he gives it back, it’s done and over. No foul. But of course he doesn’t.
So NARA gets a subpoena, a legal order demanding the return of everything. FBI delivers it. It’s not a social call. It’s the FBI. Give it back. Trump gives it back and I’m mad - not going to hide it - but legally it’s over. NARA gets some more docs back in addition to the sworn statement that that is everything. And of course it’s not everything.
The FBI served a legal search warrant. At this point Trump REALLY should have shut his yap and let his law work on it. But no, that’s not Don. He has to scream that the search was a raid, the docs were planted and he declassified them anyway and I WANT TO SEE THE WARRANT! You already have the warrant, moron go ahead and release it. Garland meets the raise and releases the warrant and the inventory list and SURPRISE, it’s worse than it looked at first. Code word classification documents, Human intelligence docs. You name it.
So “We want to see the Affidavit! Release the affidavit!” (Seriously Don, Shut. Up!) Um, ok. Not everything of course. Sorry Don. You don’t get names of witnesses. No obstruction or witness intimidation today. Condolences. And of course it looks even worse the story of the case behind the warrant application is a story of continual lies, deception and obstruction.
So Trump cannot stand it that his idiot lawyers are not out there looking strong. Gotta look strong, eh? So he pushes for this Special Master (likely because it’s “Special” and makes someone a “Master”).
Side Note: you cannot invoke Executive Privilege against the executive branch. It was the wrong law, executive privilege doesn’t apply here AND it’s the wrong jurisdiction. Only the best people, eh Don?
The Special Master application was probably the dumbest move of all. Not only is it irrelevant (DOJ has already filtered out attorney client docs). Not only is it the wrong jurisdiction. Now it’s got DOJ mad AND given them a channel in which to respond in a legal filing.
Normally the DOJ is a just the facts - don’t talk in public operation, but THIS? This is just too good a chance to respond.
In a filing DOUBLE the normal length, the DOJ smacks down the rational for the filing, rips the case law apart, but that’s just getting started. It also laws out in detail how Trump likely moved the docs and sought to hide them. It throws in some nice damning pics JUST to twist the knife. It shows how it found docs among unclassified junk and in his desk.
And again, he did it all to himself. If he’d just given it back, if he had at least kept his mouth shut and let his lawyers do the work, it’s would either be over, or public knowledge of his guilt would not be widely known.
Now he has unleashed the American Justice system on himself. And every sentient being with a tv now knows what a lying treason weasel he really is.
Again legally it doesn’t matter, but anyone who isn’t one of his rubes is going to ask “What was he going to do with that stuff?” It’s not unreasonable to think “To sell to our enemies, of course.”
Quite the game of twister here by our righties who are trying to argue that all their arguments they used about Hillary, somehow don't apply to Trump, particularly when it turned out Hillary hadn't actually done anything wrong (according to Republican House Select Committee), and clearly Trump is guilty.
AND, in the GQP’s absolute worst nightmare, TRUMP is on the ballot now. Declared or not, indicted or not, Trump and Trump Crime are on the ballot. In every state, too to bottom, Trump and abortion (they can thank Trump AND SCOTUS for that one.) are on the ballot
Only his idiot rubes could possibly want that. No Republican candidate in any jurisdiction needing the votes of moderate and independent voters with a prayer in hell of winning would want to be associated with a proven liar, an obvious sociopath and a future convicted felon.
And Yet,….. That’s exactly what Trump has done, because he’s a narcissistic sociopath and a stupid one at that.
I’ll bet deep down Mitch wishes he’d lead a vote to convict about now. The House would be a done deal (although it’s still likely to change parties) and the Senate wouldn’t be slipping from his grasp.
He said he declassified them. It has to be proven in court that he didn’t.
No it doesn't, as the charges he will be facing don't require for the documents to have been classified.
Maybe you should fact-check yourself, instead of just repeating your hyper-extremist right-wing MSM word-for-word.
He said he declassified them. It has to be proven in court that he didn’t. Good luck there and because he thought they were declassified just like good ole Hillary, no “intent” then just “carelessness” at worst.
its just usual media distraction from Biden failure at the end of the day.
But 18 former top Trump administration officials tell CNN they never heard any such order issued during their time working for Trump, and that they believe the claim to be patently false.
Several officials laughed at the notion. One senior administration official called it "bullsh*t." Two of Trump's former chiefs of staff went on the record to knock down the claim.
"Nothing approaching an order that foolish was ever given," said John Kelly, who served as Trump's chief of staff for 17 months from 2017 to 2019. "And I can't imagine anyone that worked at the White House after me that would have simply shrugged their shoulders and allowed that order to go forward without dying in the ditch trying to stop it."
Mick Mulvaney, who succeeded Kelly as acting White House chief of staff, also dismissed the idea and told CNN he was "not aware of a general standing order" during his tenure.
Oh, my.........another lame attempt to deny, distract and whatabout!
Yep Bill declassified them. Try that one on for size.
bill wasn’t president when the docs were created. Trump was. Size doesn’t fit.
Then if you go by the law as you say, charges for Hillary should be forthcoming as well.
The House Republican Committee that investigated her found she hadn't done anything against which charges could be pressed.
It turns out your MSM just made up a bunch of lies about her, and the morons on the right didn't bother to fact-check what they were being told. Many of them are still repeating the fake-news they were stupid enough to believe from their right-wing MSM.
Ooookay. All those emails on Hillary’s server. Bill declassified them. Try that one on for size
As did Trump, so now what’s the DOJ’s plan?
It is if they weren’t prosecuted. “Precedent” is the term.
The only precedent is if there isn't enough evidence, then charging them would be malicious prosecution.
Not enough evidence to charge Hillary with. Your team members were just too stupid to fact-check what they were saying.
He said he declassified them. It has to be proven in court that he didn’t.
Here is where the logic of trump and his followers fall apart.
No one knows what exactly trump was taking with him every day. Nor did they know after the fact. And so no one, other than trump, would know what was declassified. If there was a request under the Freedom of Information Act for documents that trump now claims he declassified, government officials would have no way of knowing whether it had been declassified. Without having the declassification recorded or put in writing, documents would continue to be treated as classified.
And if nothing was recorded or written down to explain what has been declassified, “How would you know it’s true?”
No it doesn't, as the charges he will be facing don't require for the documents to have been classified.
oh? But isn’t “muh classified documents” the big screaming point in liberal land?
“will be facing”. So nothing really happened yet. After the midterms now, right? Tick tock.
bill wasn’t president when the docs were created. Trump was. Size doesn’t fit.
It is even funnier how now the conservative right is screaming "Defund the police," and we should not always "back the blue."
You mean the FBI. The big difference is when you look at what the FBI has done or the last seven years in trying to tag Trump, with the Democrats they feel more its about racial equity and that the police are arresting the wrong people, when the people that are committing most of the crimes are not whom the Democrats feel should be arrested, they should be arresting people are not aligned with their political values and looking at all the major blue states, how has that worked out so far for the nation?
oh? But isn’t “muh classified documents” the big screaming point in liberal land?
Um, so you think it's ok to steal classified documents?
As did Trump, so now what’s the DOJ’s plan?
Investigating charging 45 with obstruction. Just like it says in the headline at the top of this page.
And other charges, as has been said repeatedly by Numan and others, which have no relevance with classified status.
“will be facing”. So nothing really happened yet. After the midterms now, right? Tick tock.
Whichever is more politically expedient for the left, the better.
Time to play the game like the Republicans do.
Lock Him Up, if found to be guilty.
No Mr. Ex President you are NOT above the law.
Can’t play nice with immoral idiots. Lock him up.
There is no equivalence to Clinton. She was SECSTATE at the time and had a right to the docs. She cooperated with the investigation. The volume wasn’t even in the same universe.
And yes, it was a stupid thing to do. It doesn’t matter that Powel did the same thing. It cost her the presidency. But she was investigated TWICE and no charges were ever filed.
So I’m just going to ignore this pathetic attempt to whatabout it and deflect except to note that this is the “quality” of the argument. The defenses of the case at hand have been washed away like a sand castle built at low tide (something only Trump would be stupid enough to do.)
There is no positive argument to make in defense of “Less intelligent Voldemort.”
He had no right to the documents. They were not his. The return of the documents was requested then demanded. He refused and hid and attempted to retain, ILLEGALLY, national defense documents.
He did it. He’s (going to be found) guilty.
No amount of bluster or deflection is going to change that.
But when bluster and BS is all that’s left, that’s what they go with.
Thus the “But Clinton…” harangue over and over again.
Just like it says in the headline at the top of this page.
And other charges, as has been said repeatedly by Numan and others, which have no relevance with classified status.
Not really given what we don’t know or what they think they might know.
He is guilty as hell and I really hope that the Department of Justice bails him to the cross.
Guilty of what? What is the charge? Was he convicted of a crime? I thought in the US you have the right to be judged innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and how would you know he obstructed the law? Who determines that?
Recently, you said someone was guilty, before they had a trial. Another flip flop.
Get your excuses ready again.
If you’ve been following the news recently, you know, political pundits, legal experts, those kind of people almost universally agree this is a very very serious matter.
Let’s see how it plays out before dismissing it, shall we?
Something may finally stick to Mr. Teflon, for years Mr. Trump lied, cheated, even tried to overturn a democratic election system, and now he and his team of so called lawyers are threatening law enforcement including some politicians,
Let the very same system that put him in the white house prosecute him as well.
And Trump’s er,… “statements” on the matter? These are the words of someone experiencing a mental break. Demanding to be instated as President of an election he lost almost 2 years later. Accusing the FBI of scattering the documents to make him look bad. Coming as close as one can come (wink wink) to encouraging violence against the FBI.
These are not the musings of a sane person in full control of their faculties.
Maybe he is getting ready for an insanity defense? In an odd way, it would be his best legal argument.
There is no equivalence to Clinton.
Yes, there is. Withholding classified documents.
And yes, it was a stupid thing to do.
It doesn’t matter that Powel did the same thing. It cost her the presidency. But she was investigated TWICE and no charges were ever filed.
So we should have double standards? Why?
So I’m just going to ignore this pathetic attempt to whatabout it
You can ignore it, but Republicans, Trump his lawyers and even liberal legal constitutionalists like Turley and Dershowitz won’t.
He had no right to the documents.
Yes, he did. He declassified them. At least before the election he did, now Garland says, he doesn’t. Make up your minds, please!
He did it. He’s (going to be found) guilty. No amount of bluster or deflection is going to change that.
Which is different from being indicted or going to prison, not going to happen.
Declassified documents have to be date stamped. Easy to see the difference between those and declassified ones. But all of Trump’s papers belong to the government and are retained.
Bass4,did you attend Trump Reinstatement gala tonight,a grand jury is the only entity that can charge Trump,learn about American basis law before commenting Google Trump Reinstatement
Bass: How did he mishandle classified documents when he declassified them?
It's irrelevant. Trump has a duty to return all docs, classified or not. They belong to the American people, not him.
No, it’s today’s headline. New things happen and they become ‘news’.
Yes, but it’s the same recycled subliminal message “get Trump” yawn….
Hillary can breathe a sigh of relief
So can the nation, seriously!!
Every response you make is just an evasion,
No, I’m m a big boy and always speak my mind.
In my opinion, you succeed in neither.
Yeah, in your opinion, and you are allowed to think and believe whatever you want. No harm, no foul. Lol
The photos in the article show top secret documents.
NBC analyst stated that Mr. Trump is "dead to rights"
Crimes Being Investigated by DOJ
1- Willful Retention of national defense information.
2- Concealment of government records
3- Obstruction of federal investigation
Mr. Trump has yet to explain for what in the world he is doing with these documents!??
Trump has a duty to return all docs, classified or not. They belong to the American people, not him.
Ok, so let’s say you are maybe or possibly right, if Trump did somehow obstruct then the next question is, and in order to seal some conviction, what was the intent, if any and how would your prove it? Now sure Garland thought that one through.
All the Trump supporters trying to deflect surly would want to see the law applied and would not support illegal actions.
Breaking: The Trump “response” (such as it is) is out. It is, in a word, “pathetic.”
For starters, they admit that Trump had the documents. So much for the “planted evidence” defense.
They admit that the documents in question are presidential records and thus, not his.
They kind of attack the search warrant. This is not the jurisdiction. They notably never contested the warrant in the proper jurisdiction.
The response basically comes down to “I’m Donald Trump. How DARE you serve me with a legal warrant!” And on the highly damning pictures “The bad men made us look bad by adding the pictures!” (I told you guys not to Piss them off.)
They are asking for Trump’s lawyers and the special master to not just search for attorney-client docs (already done), not just to check for executive privilege, which he cannot declare against the executive, it asks the SM to OVERSEE the criminal investigation.
Of course, I suppose that the judge could be a meth addict/owned by the Russians/ just paid no attention in law school, but it seems highly unlikely that these, um… “arguments” will be taken seriously.
It seems even less likely that an Appeals court of several judges would not have a good chuckle before throwing it out, were by some miracle, Trump’s lawyers were to prevail at the circuit court level.
See you in court I guess. but it’s really too much risk cause you likely will lose. So easier to just leak unprovable stuff every week for the next 6 years.
This article does an excellent job of laying out clearly how Trump and his minions tried to obstruct justice by lying and attempting a cover-up...
There's no deflecting or denying or what-a-abouting the fact that Trump through his lawyer stated in June that "there were no classified documents located at Mar-A-Lago".... Note the lawyer didn't say "formerly classified" or "declassified" - he openly admitted in writing that these docs were "classified"....
Then an insider on Trump's own team tipped off the FBI that there was in fact many more classified docs there and that the written statement from Trump's lawyer was a lie and an attempt to obstruct justice....
And what did the FBI find when it searched in Aug - 10 sets more, to include TS/SCI.
That put's Trump and his lawyer dead to rights on obstruction of justice...now the FBI is continuing its investigation to see who else knew the classified was there, and kept silent or lied about it - and if there is any more classified hidden at Trump's other properties...
He'll be indicted soon - along with anyone else who participated in this huge national security violation...
A couple here can't admit their buddy no longer in chief is a criminal. Nixon supporters do that kind of stuff. Oh, not Nixon? You mean this Trump guy? Yep, even 3745. Wow, is that bad, cause 37 was the biggest criminal in office till 45 came along to fleece his cult. You were a crook 37. 45, you are a ridiculous thug who thinks he's above the law. Wow, this new proof of why the raid occurred is fun to see 45 and his team of supporters squirm silly and wrong answers.
So if the indictment is delayed until after the midterms then it’s just more proof that the whole thing is politically motivated.
Why isn’t he indicted if it’s as clear as leftists here claim?
Blacklabel,a grand jury could indict Trump tomorrow,if the US Attorney present this too a grand jury ,a grand jury just has to vote their conscious in the majority
Want a clear example that most of "conservative world" is done with Trump and his legacy of crime, look no further than conservative icon Ann Coulter....
Yesterday she compared Trump's most loyal supporters to those of the Grateful Dead, following him from place to place, listening to the same songs and "wearing the costumes" indicative of a fan club, rather than the embodiment of a broad political coalition.
"Trump fans are having a lot of fun, but it isn't indicative of a movement that's sweeping the nation," Coulter said on the podcast. "It's not the party of Trump. It's safe to come back, and it's safe for Republicans to stand up and run without Donald Trump."
"You don't need to suck up to Trump anymore, talk radio hosts, TV hosts, Republicans running for office. He's done. He's over."
https://www.newsweek.com/ann-coulter-accuses-conservative-media-lying-about-trumps-popularity-1738277
Ouch....bet there's more ketchup stains on the walls at Mar-A-Lago...
Ok so go ahead? Why not? It’s going on a month now of supposedly obvious crime, right?
It’s hard to see how this is going to end well. The boxes of documents were obviously there, in Trump’s house, where they shouldn’t have been. His lawyers, and/or Trump himself and his representatives, obviously lied about having handed over all the documents Trump had, because more were found after they made that statement. Yet none of this seems to make any difference to the unshakeable opinion of Trump’s defenders that he’s done nothing wrong, and their belief that even trying to determine the truth is a politically-driven injustice. He could go to trial with a mountain of evidence against him, and his defenders won’t even acknowledge the mountain. Whatever Trump is found guilty of doing, his acolytes will not accept it - and we know what they’re capable of when they don’t like, or accept, the truth.
Breaking: The Trump “response” (such as it is) is out. It is, in a word, “pathetic.”
What? He should just roll over and accept the partisan political actions of the FBI and now an aggressive DOJ that’s trying to indict him? He shouldn’t. 8 years playing with these people is long enough
For starters, they admit that Trump had the documents. So much for the “planted evidence” defense.
How would we know they didn’t plant any evidence. 30 agents, over 9 hours of rummaging through his mansion. Why the need to go through Melania’s things? Why take a presidential jacket? What’s the significance of that? Why break stuff?
They admit that the documents in question are presidential records and thus, not his.
The ones he declassified? And?
They kind of attack the search warrant.
Yes, they absolutely should based on the history of the Feds lying at the FISA courts and now we just have to take their word? Why?
They are asking for Trump’s lawyers and the special master to not just search for attorney-client docs (already done),
So who are these people to say or determine that a third and impartial party can look over the warrant, documents and justification and execution of the warrant?
Now that’s not only ludicrous, but insanely funny!
It seems even less likely that an Appeals court of several judges would not have a good chuckle before throwing it out,
If they have an ulterior motive, why would they not dismiss it?
were by some miracle, Trump’s lawyers were to prevail at the circuit court level.
You mean, someone with a shred of decency and non-partisan sense.
You really think a former and future president is going to prison over some unclassified documents the archives claim that but trump says belong to him? How about the framed magazine cover?
Yep. He better get a better lawyer than he’s thus far been able to retain.
In a case of law and facts, he’s dead man walking. There are steaks he’s eaten that are not as cooked as he is.
When the criminal justice system is done with him, chefs around the world will have a new level of “done” called “Trump.” It’s will denote a cut of meat heated until it is just a husk of smoking carbon.
you keep saying unclassified documents when the article photos show classified documents.
What Hillary Clinton did was wrong too, but what she did was mild compared to what Trump has been doing.
Why would Trump steal all of these top secret U.S. documents? Was he going to sell the secrets to the highest foreign bidder? : o
he declassified them since then. Plus your team keeps saying doesnt matter if the documents are classified or not.
So make up your mind on the narrative. Time magazine is in the picture, that’s not classified.
Yep. He better get a better lawyer than he’s thus far been able to retain.
He’s got more than a dozen, he will be fine.
In a case of law and facts, he’s dead man walking.
The left keep saying this since 2016
In 2018 it became a felony crime to knowingly mishandle classified documents.
Cant knowingly mishandle classified documents if you believe they are not classified.
because you believe and claim you used your declassification authority to do.
How did he mishandle classified documents when he declassified them?
Does declassification work like Abra cadabra? If you mumble it to yourself is the magic done?
The reason I ask is that the judges would be very interested in donald's witchcraft practices!!!
These people just don’t learn their lesson… they do the same thing over and over, lose every time… and the media wonders why nobody believes them anymore…
Yesterday donald put out a message saying that he declassified all the document the FBI planted on him.
I bet neither he nor the amateur lawyers who work for him thought this one through!!!
Brilliant - no other word for it....
Trump goes on Truth Social today and totally undercuts his lawyers... and admits he had classified at Mar-A-Lago...
"There seems to be confusion as to the 'picture' where documents were sloppily thrown on the floor and then released photographically for the world to see, as if that’s what the FBI found when they broke into my home. Wrong! They took them out of cartons and spread them around on the carpet, making it look like a big 'find' for them," Trump posted. "They dropped them, not me - very deceiving."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-admits-possession-with-truth-social-post-that-is-evidence-of-his-guilt-analysis/ar-AA11ke1D?cvid=cba9467f8f68489a8591a03ef5799145
So Trump just 1) admitted that the classified was in fact at Mar-A-Lago and was kept in his "cartons"....2) Totally undercut his lawyer who issued a written statement in June that "there is no longer any classified documents at Mar-A-Lago"....3) Proved he didn't declassify any of it since they all still contained their original classified markings...
The argument Trump is making is the same as if a drug dealer said that the FBI sloppily arranged all the cocaine bricks found in cartons at his house...
Keep at it Donald, you're making the DOJ's case easier with each tweet...
A few of the desperate idiots around donald put out an argument that don needed the classified documents because he is writing his memoirs.
However laughable that is, why did he need files on American nuclear weapons to write his memoirs.
Unless he is doing his Phd which is also totally believable!!!
Cant knowingly mishandle classified documents if you believe they are not classified.
because you believe and claim you used your declassification authority to do.
Using this argument, Less Intelligent Voldemort could never be held legally liable for ANYTHING owing to his status as a total moron.
Fortunately, possessing government documents that don't belong to him REGARDLESS OF CLASSIFICATION and attempting to prevent their retrieval is a crime of commission, not process. Sorry Don.
Interestingly enough, this was the actual stated reason that Jr. was not charged with obstruction. Investigators determined that he was just too dumb to realize he was committing a crime.
The parking garage lawyer who works pro bono for donald is now placing herself in the room where the documents were stored and said many other guests frequented the room.
You cannot make this up, it gets better and better every hour!!!
Keep in mind that the whole point of the FBI raid is to keep Trump’s base angry enough to “draft” him in 2024 - and lose, even to President Houseplant!
So you want to be Trump's lawyer? Here are some preliminary questions before your interview.
Are you good looking enough on TV? (Note: only applicable to female applicants)
Have you passed the bar? (Note: No is not really a deal-breaker if you answered yes in Q #1.)
How important is getting paid to you?
How important is maintaining your law license/professional reputation/social standing to you?
Can you pass a lie-detector test. (Note: We are asking if you can pass the test. Not if you can tell the truth.)
Do you currently have legal representation?
If you answered no to the question above, are you willing to provide you own legal counsel at your own expense?
Thank you for filling this in and the boss will now watch your job interview on Faux "news." Good Luck! (You are going to need it)
Trump is so funny. One day it's, "I gave you everything, so buzz off!" The next day it's, "I declassified all of the secret documents with a magic wave of my wand, so get out!" And then it's, "Oh, it was the moving people! They did it! They did it!" Now it's, "these top secrets, which are mine by personal rights, are all for my presidential memoirs."
Does he ever run out of likes? He's like some kind of of a BS machine.
So it seems that Don is really upset about the picture.
Not that it makes him look guilty as hell, mind you (although it really REALLY does).
No, Don is mad that it would make anyone think that his office is messy. I kid you not.
He trots out idiot lawyer to TV to assure us that Trump's office is need and tidy because "people were in and out of there all the time and they can all tell you how neat he kept it" (This is a paraphrase of her interview).
1) We know that the DOJ found multiple classified docs in his desk. 3 as I recall. So, people in and out of the office all the time. That most certainly does NOT sound like keeping classified documents safe and secure. She just made an admission on recorded TV. Thank you. I am sure that will come in handy at trial.
2) There are literally dozens, perhaps hundreds of people that can and have attested that Trump is in fact, a slob. The guy who wrote "Art of the Deal" said the office was awash in papers and memorabilia just lying here and there. "Mike Tyson's heavyweight championship belt lying on the floor."
3) THIS is NOT what you should be worrying about, Don. The FBI isn't interested in making you look like you need Mari clean lady whatshername. No, this is the FBI showing that you and DOZENS of highly classified docs just lying around, intermixed with junk, er,..... "memorabilia", in your desk, that you SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD AND DID NOT GIVE BACK. If I were you, THAT is what I would be worried about.
Reading what's is coming out of Trump and his lawyers, it looks like they are at war with one another....
Trump tweets on Truth Social today admitting that the classified found during the Aug search came from his own "cartons".....undercutting his own lawyer who certified in writing in June that there was no more classified at Mar-A-Lago....
Then his lawyers say in a filing today; In a response filed Wednesday, Trump's lawyers argued the National Archives should have expected to find classified information in the presidential records at Mar-a-Lago and that they should have tried for longer to get the documents from Trump rather than referring a criminal probe to the Justice Department.
Get that? Trump's lawyers just admitted in writing to the DOJ he stole the documents and that they in fact were CLASSIFIED....
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/31/politics/doj-trump-mar-a-lago-what-matters/index.html
What a comedy of errors - but once Trump is indicted, tried, and convicted, I doubt if he'll be laughing....
"He was writing his memoirs"
I spit my coffee at this one. He is semi-literate at best. He very well may be dyslexic. Donald Trump couldn't write a "See Dick, See Jane (Jane is only a 6 so just Dick is fine. Dick is are real man!)" Book.
The Art of the Deal ghost writer said that he had to pull something together out of the stream of consciousness riffs that Trump would rant about all day long.
So the question is, "Just what was a man - who's security clearance was revoked at 12:01 on Jan 20th (A unique occurrence. Congrats, Don. You are in a league of your own!) - doing with classified, in some cases code word classified, documents that he wasn't even allowed to see anymore MUCH LESS POSSESS? "
Again, legally, "why?" doesn't matter, but with his history, it would not be unreasonable to think "He was going to sell it. When his businesses got in a financial jam next time. he was going to sell it. Maybe he has already promised it to a foreign power that has laundered money to him?"
So it seems that Don is really upset about the picture.
Who wouldn’t given his history with the FBI
Not that it makes him look guilty as hell
According to the FBI Trump was guilty when he came down the escalator and announced he was running for office.
He trots out idiot lawyer to TV to assure us that Trump's office is need and tidy
How would you know what an idiot lawyer is? Do you know all the lawyers he has on his payroll, do you know anything about them how do you know if his office was tidy or not? Let me guess, because the Feds said so?
1) We know that the DOJ found multiple classified docs in his desk.
Which by no means indicates that the crime was committed.
2) There are literally dozens, perhaps hundreds of people that can and have attested that Trump is in fact, a slob.
Being a slob is a crime? They have been also enough people and reports that stated that Trump is a perfectionist, so depends on who you believe
3) THIS is NOT what you should be worrying about, Don.
yeah, he should be worried about having 30 agents in his home for nine hours unobstructed and with a broad based search warrant which allows him to go anywhere in his house and take anything that they wanted, how can you secure that, how do you define and know what was taken or what was planted or if anything was planted, why would they go through his wife’s wardrobe? Why would they take a presidential jacket? Garland is in a world of s___ next year once McCarthy takes the gavel.
I spit my coffee at this one. He is semi-literate at best.
He’s got a mansion, casinos, properties all over the world, a helicopter and a plane in his own name, if he’s semi-literate, they must be doing something great.
The Art of the Deal ghost writer said that he had to pull something together out
Yeah, we heard those debunked stories as well.
Maybe he has already promised it to a foreign power that has laundered money to him?"
If the left is still going to run on that narrative, they need to think of a new plan and fast, because that one is just wearing thin.
The lawyers that signed off on that affirmation that there had been a "diligent search" and swore that there were no more documents, classified or otherwise, to which the govt had a right are going to flip or lawyer up and take the 5th. There is no magical 3rd option.
While they're deciding, they might want to Google "Crime-Fraud Exception in Attorney-Client Privilege".
Until all this speculation is proven in a court its just a bunch more allegations of the 6 year witch hunt.
Prove he knew, prove he had intent, prove they are not declassified under his order authority. That you might get somewhere by 2025 the start of Trump 47.
The lawyers that signed off on that affirmation that there had been a "diligent search" and swore that there were no more documents,
you know the FBI agents were up and down that there was Russian collusion and then it was found out that it wasn’t, the FBI also lied about the FISA warrant, also about the reports that Trump was in Russia having sex with multiple women at a hotel, that was under oath and delayed about that as well, so I’m sorry, but they credibility is just shot to shell. The FBI have lied so many times under oath, it’s not even funny and people are taking it with a grain of salt.
While they're deciding, they might want to Google "Crime-Fraud Exception in Attorney-Client Privilege".
I did and it seems like that they’re trying to cut his defense team off to the pass, they do and no and realize that they screwed up on this one big time. Not good news for these people.
) We know that the DOJ found multiple classified docs in his desk.
do we “know”? Or is it what you were told? Then how did they get on the floor as shown in the staged picture? No one thought to take a pic when they were in the drawer?
OK Trump supporters, defend your guy and explain this to us....
If he "declassified" the info, then why;
1) Did his lawyer say in writing in Jun that no more classified documents were at Mar-A-Lago?
2) Why did his lawyers today admit in writing that it was to be expected that classified documents should be found in the Presidential records at Mar-A-Lago?
Trump is saying it's all declassified - but his lawyers in court before a judge are all saying it is still classified...
Prove he knew, prove he had intent, prove they are not declassified under his order authority. That you might get somewhere by 2025 the start of Trump 47.
Deal. An utter lack of documentation will be enough for the Jury. Of course the testimony of over a dozen former administration officials that it never happened will help. But the complete lack of any record that they were declassified will be enough.
AND...... I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand, the classification level is legally irrelevant (that means it does not matter) in determining legal liability.
Forgive me, but I cannot think of simpler vocabulary or sentence structure. I am afraid this will have to suffice (be good enough.) Perhaps you could have someone read it to you and act it out using sock-puppets?
1 and 2: because the previous marked classified documents were already declassified - despite still having classification markings
If the lawyer lied then he goes to jail not the client. See Cohen, Michael and Avenatti, Michael as reference.
do you have any classified documents? Nope! (Because I declassified them)
Forgive me, but I cannot think of simpler vocabulary or sentence structure.
It definitely won’t clarify that political diatribe
I am afraid this will have to suffice
Trump is guilty. Lock him up.
1 and 2: because the previous marked classified documents were already declassified - despite still having classification markings
If the lawyer lied then he goes to jail not the client. See Cohen, Michael and Avenatti, Michael as reference.
do you have any classified documents? Nope! (Because I declassified them)
Yeah, not so much. That's not me saying it. That's the former DOJ prosecutors. They say "Bunk."
But on the up side, if you say this on Faux, you could have a budding albeit brief career as a legal counsel to the former potus that might almost be as lucrative (profitable) as your current gig.
Deal. An utter lack of documentation will be enough for the Jury. Of course the testimony of over a dozen former administration officials that it never happened will help. But the complete lack of any record that they were declassified will be enough.
Will be, will, will be. All I see is usage of future speculative based tense. How do you know there is the lack of any record?
I’ve seen declassification memos. Those aren’t records?
1 and 2: because the previous marked classified documents were already declassified - despite still having classification markings
Prove it. Show the records of the declassification assessment and memo documenting it was all declassified...and don't post again the bogus memo on Crossfire Hurricane...none of that was TS/SCI or SAP...
If the lawyer lied then he goes to jail not the client. See Cohen, Michael and Avenatti, Michael as reference.
So Trump's lawyers all lied? Including the one today that said in writing that "it was to be expected to find CLASSIFIED info in Presidential records? If they are all lying, testifying before a judge the opposite of what Trump is saying, why hasn't he fired them?
do you have any classified documents? Nope! (Because I declassified them)
Then why are all his lawyers, up to today, say it's all STILL CLASSIFIED?
And more evidence that conservative world has moved on from Trump....
John Bolton, who served as Trump’s White House national security adviser, said he “wouldn’t be surprised if there were more highly classified documents at Bedminster or some other residence of his.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-more-sensitive-documents_n_630fe63ae4b063d5e6215c83
The ultimate Repub conservative icon knows his former employer best....
How do you know there is the lack of any record?
Has he presented one? I guarantee that if there were, THAT is what his attorneys, such as they are, would lead with. "Here is proof that Trump actually declassified THESE PARTICULAR DOCUMENTS."
But no, nothing. Until such is provided, I will go with "There isn't any."
Oh and, (again) Obstruction and Espionage Act violations do not depend on the level of classification or lack thereof.
Most children understand by the age of 11 or so that just saying the same thing again and again does not make it true. What is your excuse?
And as a trial has not happened YET, the use of the future tense in talking about things that will happen in the future is the standard.
I see that you exhibit (show) as much understanding of future events as Trump. How fitting.
So Trump's lawyers all lied?
seems like the Feds lied….again
Including the one today that said in writing that "it was to be expected to find CLASSIFIED info in Presidential records?
Records that the DOJ knew about earlier last year.
If they are all lying, testifying before a judge the opposite of what Trump is saying, why hasn't he fired them?
Like I said, credibility is not the Feds strongpoint.
I’ve seen declassification memos. Those aren’t records?
Have you seen such memos for these documents? No.
Did Trump’s lawyers admit that he lied and said he had given over all the information the government asked for when he didn’t? Yes.
Do you know anything about the law? No.
If you can tell me which documents these are it would help. How do you know these aren’t crossfire hurricane?
doj wont release that info specifically to prevent proving those specific documents do in fact have a memo or an order.
So Trump's lawyers all lied?
seems like the Feds lied….again
Blatant weak dodge. once again; So Trump's lawyers all lied? Including the one today that said in writing that "it was to be expected to find CLASSIFIED info in Presidential records? If they are all lying, testifying before a judge the opposite of what Trump is saying, why hasn't he fired them?
*Including the one today that said in writing that "it was to be expected to find CLASSIFIED info in Presidential records?*
Records that the DOJ knew about earlier last year.
Indeed, CLASSIFIED records according to Trump's lawyers...while he was/is saying they were declassified....??????
If they are all lying, testifying before a judge the opposite of what Trump is saying, why hasn't he fired them?
Like I said, credibility is not the Feds strongpoint.
Helps to read the post before replying - Trump says they were declassified (but offers no proof), Trump's lawyers in Jun and TODAY said they're all still classified....one more time, explain that....
sounds like you have a problem with Trump's lawyers not Trump.
if you could tell me what these documents are about, I am sure there is a memo that covers their declassification. So again how do you know these arent Crossfire Hurricane docs? oh, you just HOPE they arent, cause those have a declassification memo? gotcha.
you cant just say its NOT about any of the ones that have memos without telling us which one it IS about that supposedly doesnt have a memo or order. DOJ is intentionally withholding what the documents are about. It was "nuclear secrets" but that seems to have fallen out of favor with classified Time magazine covers taking their place.
No dodge, just stating the facts.
So Trump's lawyers all lied?
More like the Feds….again…
CLASSIFIED info in Presidential records? If they are all lying, testifying before a judge the opposite of what Trump is saying, why hasn't he fired them?
I think you’re overreaching into the realm of liberal conspiracy theories again.
Indeed, CLASSIFIED records according to Trump's lawyers...while he was/is saying they were declassified....??????
Which now seems like it will be harder to prosecute Trump if that’s the goal.
If they are all lying, testifying before a judge the opposite of what Trump is saying, why hasn't he fired them?
Like I said, credibility is not the Feds strongpoint.
Helps to read the post before replying -
Don’t tell me, you guys are seeing this as political cat nip.
sounds like you have a problem with Trump's lawyers not Trump.
Now that's funny - so you can't explain it - why Trump says one thing and his lawyers before a judge say the exact opposite. You guys were the ones saying Trump has great lawyers - so why are they all contradicting him in court?
if you could tell me what these documents are about, I am sure there is a memo that covers their declassification. So again how do you know these arent Crossfire Hurricane docs? oh, you just HOPE they arent, cause those have a declassification memo? gotcha.
Easy - you cannot even say SAP "black" programs exist - yet Crossfire Hurricane was an open program. And if what you say is true, then why do Trump's lawyers all say the info was classified?
you cant just say its NOT about any of the ones that have memos without telling us which one it IS about that supposedly doesnt have a memo or order. DOJ is intentionally withholding what the documents are about. It was "nuclear secrets" but that seems to have fallen out of favor with classified Time magazine covers taking their place.
OK, then why aren't Trump's lawyers using that argument in court to defend him?
the documents on the floor in the picture were not found on the floor but somewhere else.
the Time magazine in the picture was also not found on the floor, but somewhere else.
where did they all come from and how can you prove they were even together or even in the home itself when found?
Thats a big screw up to move things from where they are found for an obviously staged picture.
cant wait for the court day that will likely never come. this is too valuable as a 2 year long consistent leak and too much risk of acquittal yet again for Trump.
No dodge, just stating the facts.
Then for the third time answer it; Trump's lawyers all lied? Including the one today that said in writing that "it was to be expected to find CLASSIFIED info in Presidential records? If they are all lying, testifying before a judge the opposite of what Trump is saying, why hasn't he fired them?
So Trump's lawyers all lied?
More like the Feds….again…
*CLASSIFIED** info in Presidential records? If they are all lying, testifying before a judge the opposite of what Trump is saying, why hasn't he fired them?*
I think you’re overreaching into the realm of liberal conspiracy theories again.
*Indeed, CLASSIFIED records according to Trump's lawyers...while he was/is saying they were declassified....??????*
Which now seems like it will be harder to prosecute Trump if that’s the goal.
The great MAGA unanswerable - why is Trump saying in public he declassified this info (but offer no proof) while his lawyers are all saying before a judge even today that it IS STILL CLASSIFIED....
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